When Gabby met Shaun

Western Mail

It took just 11 minutes for Wales defence guru Shaun Edwards to open his heart to Gabby Logan about Wales winning the Six Nations last weekend, living a ‘boring’ life, his father’s tough love and the event which shook his world – the death of his baby brother. He found a kindred spirit in Gabby, who also lost a sibling. They met on the set of BBC’s Inside Sport earlier this week and this is the transcript of that candid interview..

GL: Shaun, what a perfect weekend.

SE: Yes, and it was my son’s birthday, too. He was with me all weekend so he has been very, very happy as well. It’s fantastic.

GL: How hard was it getting your head off the pillow today, getting into your car and getting back to your day job?

SE: It was exciting really because we had a big game today as well. I had a few drinks last night and you wake up and go ‘what happened last night? Oh we won the Grand Slam!’ Only some nights you go ‘what did I do?’ No, seriously, it was lovely to wake up and know your job had been done.

GL: When you took the job I can imagine there was a great deal of deliberation in your mind...

SE: Yes there was, yeah...

GL: And now, obviously, do you think why did I bother deliberating?

SE: Yeah, I discussed it with a lot of people who I respect and there were deliberations and, as you say, I would have been pretty gutted now if I looked back and hadn’t taken the job.

GL: Yeah, but would the result have been the same if you hadn’t taken the job? You are instrumental, and your relationship with Warren (Gatland, the Wales coach) is obviously pretty special isn’t it?

SE: I get on really well with Warren, and he is probably one of my best friends, certainly in rugby and one of my best friends full stop. We both have very, very similar values about how rugby should be played, and that’s probably one of the reasons we get on so well.

GL: Is it all rugby, rugby when you go out because one of the urban myths about you is that you finish work, get in the car and go home and watch copious amounts of tapes.

SE: Yep, I’m a pretty boring person to be honest! It’s what you have to do. We have a saying at Wasps, ‘Are your opponents working harder than you?’ and it’s a reminder to be competitive.

GL: Ian McGeechan’s (director of Rugby, London Wasps) wealth of experience in the Six Nations, I imagine, has been invaluable. So when you come back to Wasps, are you still able to sound off?

SE: Yeah, yeah... I said he’s been a bit of a rock for me, and he pushed quite hard for me to get this job (in Wales). He was realising that, you know, I’d been with Wasps for seven years and I did need probably a new challenge, kind of thing. I did need a chance to go on the Lions tour. The last Lions tour, I didn’t get to go on, and in my own mind I had an excuse because I didn’t do international rugby, and if I didn’t go on the next one, I didn’t want that to be the excuse in my own mind.

GL: Do you feel ready to be in the next Lions tour?

SE: Well, I’d like to throw my hat in. Not as head coach but...

GL: And is that Lions job in Warren’s mind?

SE: I think Warren would definitely go if asked, and I am sure he would do a very, very good job.

GL: So the dream team for the next Lions tour, they are saying it is you and Gats and Geech (Ian McGeechan) – the Holy Trinity. Does that sound like a good working relationship to you then?

SE: Well, I know the personalities involved. It’s not up to me to tell the board or panel of people who to select, but one thing I do know is that these three guys would get on very, very well. That’s one thing that stuck out throughout with Wales this year is that there’s been a lot of unity. We don’t always agree with what Warren says but more often than not he will, you know, go with a suggestion we have, but when he does say he wants it in a certain way we will back him to the hilt.

GL: Quotes have given us an insight, perhaps, into A) how tough your sessions have been, and those in the know at Wasps say they ain’t seen nothing yet. And (B) this tightness in the camp. Do you think they (the Wales players) have found it tough? Do you think they found the new regime tough?

SE: Martyn Williams came out with a comment once, he said that if (he’d) known it was going to be this hard (he) wouldn’t have come back! But no, you only get out of life what you put in, don’t you? You’ve got to work hard, it’s as simple as that.

GL: Everything smacks of the dedication which, when you were a player, seemed incredibly intense. You seem more relaxed now than you were then. What was the 17-year-old Shaun Edwards (who played for Wigan) like?

SE: Nervous, scared, didn’t want to let my parents down, and wanted them to be proud of me.

GL: The relationship with your dad (Jack, who played half-back for Warrington in the late 1950s) as well seems pivotal.

SE: Yes, my father was very stern with me in a rugby sense. He used to push me hard. I remember as a child growing up that he would constructively criticise me, I can assure you, when I played.

GL: How did it work? You’d come off after a match and would it be in the bar (celebrating with him) afterwards?

SE: No, he used to write a little book, like a match report, of my games.

GL: And where is the book?

SE: I still have those books at home.

GL: Have you?

SE: Yeah, some of them, yeah...

GL: And will you do the same thing for your son?

SE: No, because I’m far softer with my son than my father was with me. I know that sometimes after a match my dad will come up to me and shake my hand and I would be like, ‘Oh, in I’m in heaven!’ Because I thought I must have played well today, my dad shook my hand.

GL: Your father had an accident when he was playing.

SE: Yes, my father got crippled when he was 24 playing rugby and he was a great inspiration to me. I suppose he’s my hero. They talk about boyhood heroes and I suppose my boyhood hero was my father.

GL: I imagine your brother’s (Billy-Joe) death was the big inspiration in the second half of your career.

SE: It’s the biggest event of my life by far. As soon as I got that phone call I knew my life would never be the same again. People say that time heals, but it doesn’t really heal that much. To be honest, I don’t know what I would have done if I didn’t have a job at Wasps. Because I’m the kind of person who needs to keep their mind occupied. I’d been unemployed once in my life, out of work for 18 months. I don’t know what I would have done.

GL: And, obviously, in Lawrence Dallaglio (Wasps number 8) you had someone who knew exactly what you were going through.

SE: Yes. I think me and Lawrence have a special bond, really. He is almost like family to me. He lost a sister (Francesca, aged 19) and we lost Billy-Joe. And whilst I think we were close before, I think that’s made a special bond between us. It’s intangible. Sometimes I can’t say what it is, or why it is, but, yes, it’s special.

GL: How much was he (Billy-Joe) on your mind (during the Six Nations final in Cardiff against France)?

SE: When I was walking around the pitch I did say thanks to him because I’ve asked for a bit of help now and again, particularly when we were at about half time against England. But, yes, I did think about him.

GL: Was there a sense of... I know when my brother (Daniel) died there was this sense of feeling that you almost had to live a life, two lives...

SE: Yes, I think that’s a good way (of putting it). I would have said that as well. I’ve heard Lawrence say that as well, and I think that’s a good way of putting it.

GL: When you look back now, you were this very working class lad from the North West of England who then goes on to marry a pop star (M People singer Heather Small) and ends up...

SE: I didn’t get married, I wasn’t married to her...

GL: Everything but, you know...

SE: We had a child, yes.

GL: It looks a very glamorous life.

SE: It was far from glamorous. I was living in a small flat at the time and there was me, James, his mummy and her mum was living there as well. It was pretty squashed up, I can assure you. I was out of work after I finished playing for 18 months. I had a lot of injuries and was in a lot of pain at the time, and I went through the downs of any other person who was unemployed. I went through a stage of wondering what I was going to do with my life and feeling worthless – what are you going to do with the rest of your life, type of thing. I was no different to anyone else.

GL: Did you ever think, ‘I’m going to have to do something completely different, I’m going to have to...’

SE: Well, I did have doubts, yes, sometimes, whether, you know, what was going to happen.

GL: Any particular career choices that you were close to making at that point?

SE: Not really, no, because all I’ve ever really known was rugby. I did work at Wigan stadium for a while with my old friends Mick and Jed.

GL: What did you do there?

SE: Well, my official job was sports attendant but they were called caretakers. I actually went on strike for a bit, saying I wanted to be a caretaker like the rest of the lads, otherwise I was handing in my resignation.

GL: So you guys were cleaning up round the stadium?

SE A: Yes, we were taking money and stuff like that. I’m still friends with these guys. In fact, Mick is going in for a heart operation now so I’m going to send my love to him. These guys will be friends for life.

GL: You said at that stage that one day you will be England coach.

SE: Yes, but I mean there’s things... like they said, I’ll be living in London and I would be like, no way! I’m from Wigan, me!

GL: Has being Wales coach now given you this flavour for the Six Nations? A taste of the Six Nations?

SE: Yeah, there’s no doubt international rugby is a huge buzz and, you know, I want more of it!

GL: Well there’s already been the statements that England missed a trick and that you and Warren should have been installed as the duo to lead England. Would you, at this stage, consider an offer from England?

SE: I am a big believer in living for the present moment, and that is a hypothetical question you are asking me. I’m happy with what I’m doing. Why would England need me as a coach? They just went to the World Cup final. England are the most successful rugby team in World Cups since the turn of the century. Maybe they don’t need me as coach. You know a really good coach is set in place and good on them.

GL: Can you kind of understand how they got themselves into that situation they did where they were...

SE: What sticks out like a sore thumb for me is that England players are best when they are under pressure. You know, whether it’s this since the exception of the play-off system to decide they’ve gone far or the fact that the Heineken Cup is built on exactly the same criteria as the World Cup. The game against Ireland was clearly a pressure game.

GL: Well you only need to look at the World Cup, don’t you... that disaster against South Africa and suddenly, when they’re under that pressure...

SE: Well, you want to be on the English team when the pressure’s on. That’s a betting term of saying you don’t want to bet on the England team...

GL: There seem to be a lot of betting terms flying about right now.

SE: My father, he likes gambling and I think gambling can be quite an enjoyable thing as long as you bet on things that you understand. You know, I remember once I had a go on the stock market and I lost a few quid because I didn’t know anything about the stock market. What an idiot! You know what I mean.

GL: I suppose you go and learn about the stock market, though, because you do seem, as well, when you read about you, you seem to be a big reader. That you seem to want to learn more and more...

SE: Yeah, I do...

GL: You’re particularly interested in the wars.

SE: I don’t read about the wars. I’ve just watched a few programmes because (I like) the History Channel. I’m a very boring person! There’s a cenotaph near where I live and I used to always go there and say a little prayer for all those guys. You can almost see the horrors of what those people went through in the trenches and, I just don’t know... they must have gone through hell.

GL: Are you the kind of person who uses things to put other things into perspective?

SE: I think what’s central to me is that we are always striving to put other people before yourself at certain times and try not to be selfish. That’s what I think whenever I’ve been selfish. I’ve been selfish and you’re never really happy.

GL: So are you really happy right now? Is Shaun Edwards happy as his...

SE: I’m belted, as they say in Wigan!

Gabby Logan interviewed Shaun Edwards on Inside Sport on March 17 on BBC1. It’s available to download on BBC iPlayer

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